It should read "If there were...". THAT's subjunctive. I have to tell you my second-year Latin students were convinced I made the subjunctive mood up just to annoy them. Little did they know.
Ah yes, le plus-que-parfait grudgingly used in English (where the simple past or past perfect will do just fine thank you) but adored by the French. Not surprising considering French's fondness for nuance and subtlety. Used far more frequently and deliberately to set a scene.
When I was in grade school, my teacher asked me, "Lee, if I were to say 'I WAS pretty,' what tense would that be?" Me: "Past tense, ma'am." Teacher: "And if were to say, "I WILL BE pretty,' what tense would that be?" Me: "That would be future tense, ma'am." Teacher: "Good. And if I were to say, 'I AM pretty,' what tense would that be?" Me: "Oh, that would be pretense." [Class laughs. I stay after school.]
Look, I'm serious here. Why the constant confusion between "may" and "might", or "since" and "because". Such as "It may rain today since the humidity will be high." Inferring, the weather has permission to rain because I can see into the future and see that the humidity WAS high later.
Oooh, and also "affect" and "effect". I have to admit, I sometimes wonder if I've used the words correctly in certain contexts, so I don't judge too harshly. ;)
... some last smart ass remark or, at least, good bye.
I know, I know, remarks are made, not said. Why? As a foreigner I cannot possibly know. It's one of the many mysteries available only to mother tonguers.
Dear MLP: Not sure we can ignore it much longer. Yes, I'm talking about the epidemic of "verbing." Anyone can turn a noun into a verb. And apparently they are. Nouns are already endangered thanks to texting and the internet (which is to blame for just about everything else, as I'm sure you know). But now to fanatically turn them into verbs --- well, sorry --- need to compose myself. Can we reclock this? Thanks in advance for efforting.
THANK YOU, Dale of Green Gables! This has become an epidemic in America and I say there should be immediate consequences for those who commit noun-verbing!
I just said that above!!! Verbing is an epidemic. Although Nouning is pissing me off, too. My least favorite? Athleticism. I don’t know who the first was to use it, but I want them hunted down and made to recant! 😡
“The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.”
― James D. Nicoll
Greenrd's Law:
"Evey post complaining about a spelling or grammatical error will inevitably contain a spelling or grammatical error."
When I was in grade school, a girl in my class always pronounced "chimney" with an "l" in place of the "n." It drove me NUTS. It felt like she was intentionally -- all right, literally -- hammering nails into my head every time she did it. How often do you need to use the word "chimney/chimley" in everyday conversation, anyhow? If you asked her, she'd no doubt insist that "chimley" is the only word in the English language which is simultaneously all parts of speech, including conjunctions and what they used to call (before Grammar Persons grew up and started giggling uncontrollably) ejaculations.
When I first read your comment, I mistook the "l" for "i". So she wasn't saying "chim-in-ee"? Oh well, it would have been just as bad. I had friends who always called Santa, "Santy Claus". I hated it.
Me too. It’s from that song, in Mary Poppins. 🎶 “Chim chiminee Chim chiminee Chim Chim chiree/chiroo…” 🎶 etc. According to Wikipedia, that song won the Academy Award for Best Original Song! So you know it was popular.
Now you have an ear worm to carry you through the day. You’re (your) welcome.
Oh I always have that earworm! My grandbaby’s nickname is Chimi (think chimichanga or chimichurri). When he and his parents were visiting in June, I unearthed the original movie soundtrack album from my basement record collection and put it on the turntable. Quite the dance party we had in 6/8 time!
When I typed the comment, before I hit the button to post it, I actually worried about that. But on the computer where I entered it, the lowercase-L "l" actually had a little hook on the top of it, whereas the uppercase-I "i" didn't. So I thought, y'know, I was -- yes -- off the hook. I shoulda known! Argh!
Over on Facebook, I belong to one of those ultra-exclusive private groups, this one for people who attended my small town grade school. She shows up in the comments now and then; my hair trigger is already on alert for her first use of The Word. I was thinking of starting a conversation along the lines of, "Do any of you remember what kind of furnace you had as a kid? Or did you have a fireplace?" just to see if I can draw her out.
I knew a guy in Bermuda who pronounced it “chim-bly. And some people there name their houses after a distinctive feature so his chimney made it into his house name as Chimbly”, we always laughed like crazy, behind his back.
There, their, they’re…..used correctly as follows:
Their airboat (it belongs to them)crashed over there (hopefully far away from here) and now they’re sad(meanwhile, everyone within hearing distance is doing the dance of joy and reveling in the peace and quiet).
Dear MLP: To the best of your knowledge when sober, have pigs ever flown? Also, do you think getting slapped or kneed in the groin after ending with a proposition is ever appropriate?
There is an uptick in the use of the word impact and most people are using it incorrectly. Or, at least, they’re using it in a very annoying way. I have come to believe that they’re using this word because they’re too stupid to know whether or not to use effect or affect. Also, microplastics.
I'd vote for whenever. "When" did when become whenever?? As in whenever I was younger I loved that Bojangles song. Whenever I was born I only weighed 5 lbs. It literally makes my brain hurt whenever I hear it's usage.
Loved all of it but especially the one about meetings. Retired now but remember the days of sitting in meetings wishing someone would just shut up. Once attempted something akin to a Vulcan Mind Meld with the word shut up, shut up shut up SHUT UP! SHUT UUUUUUUUP!!!
Mr. Language Person always has funny joke’s.
I see what you did their.
It’s International Apostrophe Day you idiot!
The’ir, is that better?
Arg! Can’t you wait until after midnight? Respect the holiday!
In my defense, it was after midnight in my time zone. Next time, I will wait until after midnight 2027. Or 2028.
Yay! I love Mr. Language Person! He's the personiest!
And the languagiest!
Was the frosting applied or extracted?
Dear MLP: Is there really a future perfect? Asking for a country.
Hopefully, we will have future perfect when this current president is no longer in office.
Future perfect? I'll just settle for an improvement.
I'll settle for a future.
If there is, the answer would be in the subjunctive.
It should read "If there were...". THAT's subjunctive. I have to tell you my second-year Latin students were convinced I made the subjunctive mood up just to annoy them. Little did they know.
Classics professor who did make up the optative to torture vermin, I mean students.
Love it!! You are a man after my own heart!!
Bless you.
Is this thread more interesting if you took Latin?
Infinitely more interesting.
But then isn't EVERYTHING?
“if there were” … subjuctive — situations contrary to fact. 😁😁😁😁😁
Don't forget the pluperfect. (And you had thought you had finally reached the end of this thread...)
When I graduated from high school, I thought I would no longer need to read or hear the word “pluperfect.”
I hope I didn't bring up any past trauma!
Ah yes, le plus-que-parfait grudgingly used in English (where the simple past or past perfect will do just fine thank you) but adored by the French. Not surprising considering French's fondness for nuance and subtlety. Used far more frequently and deliberately to set a scene.
The pluperfect is the pluenemy of the plugood.
I, for one, shall never forget the pluperfect.
There will have been a future perfect, once we stop using it.
When I was in grade school, my teacher asked me, "Lee, if I were to say 'I WAS pretty,' what tense would that be?" Me: "Past tense, ma'am." Teacher: "And if were to say, "I WILL BE pretty,' what tense would that be?" Me: "That would be future tense, ma'am." Teacher: "Good. And if I were to say, 'I AM pretty,' what tense would that be?" Me: "Oh, that would be pretense." [Class laughs. I stay after school.]
There is a future perfect.
Dale with an E. Dale is a geographic description right? Like Glen! Someone please mercifully euthanize me.
My head LITERALLY explodes when people constantly confuse "your" and "you're"! LITERALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!
So, when's yer funeral?
Look, I'm serious here. Why the constant confusion between "may" and "might", or "since" and "because". Such as "It may rain today since the humidity will be high." Inferring, the weather has permission to rain because I can see into the future and see that the humidity WAS high later.
I hate people.
You are allowed to hate people without all that justification. I do.
That is so true and Literally made me wheeze with laughter! 🤣🤣🤣
I surmise that actually wheezing while guffawing could be literally life-threatening!!!!
Blame the Canadian wildfires.
Brilliant.
More than mistakes using “your” and “you’re,” I’m bothered by the misuse of “implied” and “inferred.”
Oh my! I stand collected.
"Oh my"? Oh, your what?
Now you just offended George Takai.
👍
The speaker/ writer IMPLIES. The listener/reader INFERS. That's the difference.
Except and accept.
Oooh, and also "affect" and "effect". I have to admit, I sometimes wonder if I've used the words correctly in certain contexts, so I don't judge too harshly. ;)
Effect and affect.
Just to confuse matters, "affect" is a noun, and "effect" a verb in psychiatry.
I heard it directly from Dick Cavett's lips. "The speaker implies; the listener infers."
Ah, Dick Cavett! My folks watched him on PBS (so I did, too). He was pretty cool. I just looked him up - he's still kickin' at 88 years old!
That’s a clear, succinct way to explain it. Thank you and Dick Cavett. Nice use of the semicolon, too, but I digress.
That's a stupid question, and I don't blame you.
Dear MLP: What is the plural of "youse" when addressing more than one "youse?" "Shit heads" didn't seem to work as well as I had hoped. Can you help?
I think it's youse guys. But, don't hold me to that. Which, I think, means don't hold me responsible when you get lynched.
Well, the plural of y’all is all y’all, so I guess it would be youses.
"Y'all" is plural. Some people don't understand this.
No it isn’t. ☺️
See?
You’re clearly not a southerner. All y’all know what I said is true.
Them's you'uns
"Youses?"
Perhaps "yinz"?
It's "y'all".
It's elementary. Youse is the plural of you.
So, you need to start all of your replies with "so", know what I mean?
And end with “I’m just sayin’.”
The complete sentence goes like "so, to be perfectly clear, I'm just sayin'"
By the way… if something “goes without saying,” why do we have to say that?
To be perfectly clear, that's literally what I've not been saying for a long time, over and over again.
I never go without saying ...
... some last smart ass remark or, at least, good bye.
I know, I know, remarks are made, not said. Why? As a foreigner I cannot possibly know. It's one of the many mysteries available only to mother tonguers.
I know, right?
Dear MLP: Not sure we can ignore it much longer. Yes, I'm talking about the epidemic of "verbing." Anyone can turn a noun into a verb. And apparently they are. Nouns are already endangered thanks to texting and the internet (which is to blame for just about everything else, as I'm sure you know). But now to fanatically turn them into verbs --- well, sorry --- need to compose myself. Can we reclock this? Thanks in advance for efforting.
Efforting! That word is being used constantly by the guys on local radio: "We're efforting to get you that information."
My response (not that they can hear it) is to yell back at them what Yoda would say: "There is no efforting -- there is only trying!"
Try? There is no try. There is only do. (Or doo-doo)
- Yoda
Truth: I woke up this morning thinking about the word verbiage. I have no idea why but I made a mental note to type it today ....
And you typed it very nicely. I'm thrilled that you used the word "verbiage" instead of "verbage," which so many radio people use.
And don't get me started on "folage."
What’s a radio?
It's like a TV without a screen.
Oh wait -- what's a TV?
NEVER VERB NOUNS.
I will eyeball these comments and get back to you.
But can I noun verbs?
My former pastor used to say we needed to "faith" things. It drove me nuts! I always wanted to shout out, "Faith is a noun, not a verb!"
Is that like circling back or is it an ask?
We can take comfort in the knowledge that english speakers have been verbing nouns, and occasionally nouning verbs, since Chaucer's time.
Comfort!? (Sound of expulsion of breath in disgust). They couldn't write an understandable sentence in English.
THANK YOU, Dale of Green Gables! This has become an epidemic in America and I say there should be immediate consequences for those who commit noun-verbing!
In other countries, they would be subjected to a shoot.
I just said that above!!! Verbing is an epidemic. Although Nouning is pissing me off, too. My least favorite? Athleticism. I don’t know who the first was to use it, but I want them hunted down and made to recant! 😡
“The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.”
― James D. Nicoll
Greenrd's Law:
"Evey post complaining about a spelling or grammatical error will inevitably contain a spelling or grammatical error."
Just 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Does Mister Language Person take submissions? If so, I literally submit the following:
Say it loud, say it proud
“Ask” is a verb, not a noun
Is it "ask" or "ax"? Axing for a friend.
When I was in grade school, a girl in my class always pronounced "chimney" with an "l" in place of the "n." It drove me NUTS. It felt like she was intentionally -- all right, literally -- hammering nails into my head every time she did it. How often do you need to use the word "chimney/chimley" in everyday conversation, anyhow? If you asked her, she'd no doubt insist that "chimley" is the only word in the English language which is simultaneously all parts of speech, including conjunctions and what they used to call (before Grammar Persons grew up and started giggling uncontrollably) ejaculations.
Sheesh. I'm just twitching at the memory.
In my experience, the folks whose homes have chimleys, also have winders to look through (pronounced wynders with a short "i").
My father pronounced chimney with an L.
I assed (that's the way he pronounced asked) him how to spell chimney, he spelled it correctly.
When I assed, "Where's the L?" he was very, very confused, but too old to change his ways.
Fathers and mothers automatically get a pass on hard questions! 😉
When I first read your comment, I mistook the "l" for "i". So she wasn't saying "chim-in-ee"? Oh well, it would have been just as bad. I had friends who always called Santa, "Santy Claus". I hated it.
I also read “chim-in-ee” the first time. I remember hearing that one in my childhood.
Me too. It’s from that song, in Mary Poppins. 🎶 “Chim chiminee Chim chiminee Chim Chim chiree/chiroo…” 🎶 etc. According to Wikipedia, that song won the Academy Award for Best Original Song! So you know it was popular.
Now you have an ear worm to carry you through the day. You’re (your) welcome.
Oh I always have that earworm! My grandbaby’s nickname is Chimi (think chimichanga or chimichurri). When he and his parents were visiting in June, I unearthed the original movie soundtrack album from my basement record collection and put it on the turntable. Quite the dance party we had in 6/8 time!
When I typed the comment, before I hit the button to post it, I actually worried about that. But on the computer where I entered it, the lowercase-L "l" actually had a little hook on the top of it, whereas the uppercase-I "i" didn't. So I thought, y'know, I was -- yes -- off the hook. I shoulda known! Argh!
How about Nuclear and Nucular?
Omg. I'm having W flashbacks...
Even eloquent orator RFKJ says nucular
I snorked.
If RFKJ is eloquent, I’m William Jennings Bryan.
That one drives me nuts!!!
It's similar to when I was little and pronounced library "libary" and February "Febuary". Hopefully, that girl grew out of it. ;)
Over on Facebook, I belong to one of those ultra-exclusive private groups, this one for people who attended my small town grade school. She shows up in the comments now and then; my hair trigger is already on alert for her first use of The Word. I was thinking of starting a conversation along the lines of, "Do any of you remember what kind of furnace you had as a kid? Or did you have a fireplace?" just to see if I can draw her out.
LMAO! Go for it, though that seems slightly masochistic! ;)
Ha! In a passive-aggressive world, passive aggression is the only reasonable behavior. 🤣
I knew a guy in Bermuda who pronounced it “chim-bly. And some people there name their houses after a distinctive feature so his chimney made it into his house name as Chimbly”, we always laughed like crazy, behind his back.
Oh, that's too good. The image of conspiratorially laughing kids almost redeems my own memory!
Sadly, he and we were adults!
That IS sad! Was he Bermudan? I imagine there aren't many "chim-blies" in Bermuda, so he rarely had to use the word.
If someone wants to ax me a question, I would get out my axe.
LMAO
I would add:
Say it loud, say it proud
“Give” is a verb; “gift” is a noun.
That's a given.
That’s a big ask.
YES!
There, their, they’re…..used correctly as follows:
Their airboat (it belongs to them)crashed over there (hopefully far away from here) and now they’re sad(meanwhile, everyone within hearing distance is doing the dance of joy and reveling in the peace and quiet).
Well done!!! 👏🏻
Your literally fixin' to make you're readers loose there minds!
Dear MLP: To the best of your knowledge when sober, have pigs ever flown? Also, do you think getting slapped or kneed in the groin after ending with a proposition is ever appropriate?
Yes. They tend to fly coach, though. Pigging doesn't pay like it used to.
Pigging!!! Brilliant verbing there, Robert!!! 🤣🤣🤣
Deer Dail, in anser too you're 2 questions, Yes, and No.
You'res sincereley,
MLP
Depends on which punishment you can get the best result from.
When I'm re-booked because of a "mechanical issue," it is invariably in a middle seat, between two pigs, who are drunk.
There is an uptick in the use of the word impact and most people are using it incorrectly. Or, at least, they’re using it in a very annoying way. I have come to believe that they’re using this word because they’re too stupid to know whether or not to use effect or affect. Also, microplastics.
One of my managers told us that if something had an impact, there better be broken glass and crumpled metal.
You added microplastics in an affect, I think.
I'd vote for whenever. "When" did when become whenever?? As in whenever I was younger I loved that Bojangles song. Whenever I was born I only weighed 5 lbs. It literally makes my brain hurt whenever I hear it's usage.
I have literally never heard anyone use “whenever” that way. I need to get out more.
You don't want to, it's an abomination. Stay safe where you are.
Janet, we all feel your pain
Thank you!
Literally
Thank you! I wonder when this happened, too, Janet! "Whenever I was younger" makes no sense!
Loved all of it but especially the one about meetings. Retired now but remember the days of sitting in meetings wishing someone would just shut up. Once attempted something akin to a Vulcan Mind Meld with the word shut up, shut up shut up SHUT UP! SHUT UUUUUUUUP!!!
It didn’t work.